Keyoxide: aspe:keyoxide.org:KI5WYVI3WGWSIGMOKOOOGF4JAE (think PGP key but modern and easier to use)

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Cake day: June 18th, 2023

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  • You probably mean daemon-reexec, which also does not restart services (it better not, would be really problematic if it did).

    I do mean reload, which has uses, otherwise it wouldn’t even exist and services would simply always reload: You may not want to reload yet, but keep a working state of service definitions in systemd while editing things, similar to typing away in a code file in production without saving yet.
    I don’t see why I would need to “save” all my service definitions to get a usable (non-spammy) mount back, especially when my mount isn’t even part of systemd. How does the message even get sent by mount when mount is not aware of systemd?

    PS: systemd can replace my text editor over my cold dead body


  • shutdown, reboot, … are symlinks on multiple different systemd repos, I have no reason to believe that is not the systemd standard.

    systemd is not moving all it does into a single binary, obviously. Others already mentioned that and a bit further up I mentioned some systemd components that can be isolated too.

    GNU posix is one extreme, and busybox the other, and the accusation is that the core of systemd sits too close to busybox, and the other projects might too group together things into fewer binaries that used to be multiple independent commands.

    As for the core, I think that constitutes: services, logging (journald), cron+anacron (timers), blocking (systemd-inhibit), and mount.
    I am probably missing some there. Timers does not interfere with other cron, but it is there whether you like it or not. Those components also come bundled with otherwise optional linux features like cgroup which do complicate using other posix tools with systemd, as you get unexpected results (like nohup not working).



  • My problem is 1) how do I revert to dedicated mount, and 2) mainly that I want to edit fstab, and mount without having to reload systemd. Dedicated mount doesn’t need a reload, it simply pulls config from fstab at time of call.

    I also don’t see why you would ever want to reload service files due to editing fstab, it seems dumb in both directions. Those two systems should just be decoupled.


  • I need systemd-run to start a process in my startup scripts (that are a systemd oneshot service) so that the process won’t get killed when the startup scripts have run (subshells, nohup, … still keep the same systemd cgroup so get killed with the tree).
    I need journalctl to get output from services, so basically every system and user process I didn’t explicitly start in a console. I don’t even know how to get info from systemd stuff in any other way, as they don’t have alternate logging facilities to my knowledge.
    Systemd also ate my fstab at some point and translates mounts into services, but I haven’t really looked into that.

    I think there were a few more components packed into this systemd core. Without the init system/servixe manager, logging, … you can’t really use systemd stuff including parts of that core.

    Past that, things like networkd, resolved, … are very modular in my experience.
    I can imagine running resolved under a different init system, and I have migrated both to and from resolved on systemd systems. They do still change old paradigms, resolved replaces a file not a service for example, but they do provide adequate translation layers and backwards compatibility in most cases (Though the mounts for example has lead to me getting 5 “run daemon-reload” info messages on every execution of mount before). An issue here might be when something only supports the new systemd interface not the old stuff, say a program directly calling resolved instead of looking at resolv.conf. But I haven’t seen that, and most of those interfaces seem decent enough to implement into systemd-alternatives.

    Maybe someome who actually tried cherrypicking some systemd stuff into their system can provide some more experience?