EDIT: this in an incredible community! Deep appreciation to everyone below who commented and responded, to LadyButterfly for being instrumental in creating this space, and to everyone who contributes to its safety and support. I’m very touched by the space a group of strangers held for me, thank you all so much, my cup runneth over💞
I understand I could just be going through it, life has been hectic, but I have a small friend group in my immediate area that I’ve known for about 4 years and recently, I’ve become increasingly uncomfortable around them.
Two of them are vicious gossips, they love to shit talk everyone in their lives, including each other, without compunction or remorse. They also occasionally engage in shady behavior. Both of them steal from Air BnBs (they’ll take a vase or a bottle of room spray etc. nothing of real value, but still…) or try and cheat at things. I never tell them anything personal anymore, I’ve learned.
The other is making choices in her personal life, which is absolutely her prerogative, however, those choices are having an effect on her two young children. A lot of bringing new partners and people into their lives suddenly and then they disappear again, all on the heels of a recent divorce.
I am not a parent myself, so I feel like I shouldn’t really have an opinion, and maybe I’m just being judgemental. For the record, I have zero issue with her having however many partners she wants to have, and under whatever circumstances, provided all parties are consenting. It just bothers me that folks she met online are coming to her house with the girls being there after only 3 or 4 dates…and there’s some drinking and smoking weed involved as well.
Again, zero issue with folks who indulge, I’m sober now but I’ve definitely had my fun in the past and I’m no innocent. I just never got wasted around kids…
The thing is, I feel like an asshole, even just writing it out above. Who the hell am I to judge them? I’m no better than anyone else. But still, I don’t trust two of them, and feel like I can’t respond to the other one’s questions and texts of tinder profiles etc. honestly without deeply offending her.
On the other hand, I can literally feel my pulse race and anxiety tick up when any of them reach out recently. I have a crazy impulse to just focus on my job and partner and break up with all of them. I have other long term friends that I’m very close to, but we live far away from each other. Those friendships are all comfortable and I trust them completely and can always be myself with them. We stay in touch via tech and see each other when we can, maybe once a year.
Am I being crazy? My mother is ill and I’ve had some grief and loss this year, so there’s been some stress. At the same time, I’m eating healthy, sleeping well, exercising, and getting along well with my partner. Also keeping up with hobbies and self-care and climbing the ladder at work so I don’t think it’s depression.
Am I insufferable? Lay it on me, ladies.
deleted by creator
I took a stand on not wanting to listen to them talk about other people in any way that was malicious or mean spirited, and they lambasted me for it. Said everyone gossips and that I was a hypocrite (and I mean, look at me right now, talking about them to the faceless internet🤦♀️).
I do think it’s human nature to share news and discuss happenings, and I’m certainly no saint. I just think there’s a difference between maliciously tearing people down and telling someone that your friend got an amazing promotion and your proud of them, ya know?
… and I mean, look at me right now, talking about them to the faceless internet🤦♀️ …
Let me cut that off right now.
You’re not gossiping here. You’re mentioning third-party people without name or any identifying characteristics that anybody not already in your social circle would recognize. This is not what gossip is. Gossip mentions names (directly or indirectly) and deals with people that all parties involved know.
deleted by creator
I can stand my ground pretty well nowadays but not when folks get shouty, and one of them weaponizes anger and it makes me feel wary. When I took that stand, she got so defensive that she was yelling and, at the time, I just shut down. I’m glad I’m not alone in seeing a difference between the two!
deleted by creator
Those aren’t friends. If you don’t feel like you can trust someone, they aren’t a friend. You have been lying to yourself to say they are. Don’t guilt trip yourself for stopping the lie.
Your friends sound like more effort than they’re worth. What exactly are you getting out of these friendships that would offset the negatives?
It’s okay to let people go. You’re not obligated to remain friends with them, and you’re not crazy or insufferable. Honestly they just sound like low-quality people who add stress to your life.
It feels like a huge amount of effort when I engage. Like a mine field topped with egg shells. I think I got into a pattern of appeasement and maybe waiting for things to get better. I had had such a different idea of who they all were at first, I could be clinging to familiar patterns out of fear of change? Laziness? Avoidant behavior patterns? Probably all of the above lol
I went through a traumatic divorce 5 years ago and they were around to help me pick up the pieces, I guess I feel obligated in some ways. Also, I did get sober this year and they still smoke a lot of weed, it could be clarity on my part, but I also don’t want to take that high horse position that sometimes comes with lifestyle changes like that. I appreciate your perspective.
One very unpopular truth that I learned in life that tends to get me cancelled in some circles when I dare express it is this: No human being has intrinsic worth. Your worth as a human being is the value you bring to others. (Note: “Value” here is not pecuniary. If you make someone laugh when they’re unhappy, that’s worth. If you draw stupid, quirky little stick figure diagrams that liven up the office space when you paste them on cubicle walls, that’s worth. Only in sociopathic circles is “value” equated with “money”.)
To me it sounds like the friends you’re talking about have ceased bringing value to your life. They are not worth the attention and energy it takes for you to be friends. It’s absolutely fine to distance yourself slowly (or quickly, if that’s what you want) from them.
I like your perspective. As an addict in recovery, one of my mantras that I say to myself is, “you’re not special!” (In the “you can’t sit with us!!” voice from Mean Girls, specifically lol). The first time my partner heard me do that, they tried to correct me and I explained that I understand that I am special to them, and that’s lovely. But I’m not special in the sense that the rules do indeed apply to me.
In active addiction, my sense of entitlement was intense, I think many addicts have issues with “terminal uniqueness” tbh. It’s helpful for me to routinely check my ego and remind myself that life doesn’t owe me shit and science does not care about my feelings lol. Maybe bleak to some but oh so helpful to me.
It was a lesson hard-earned for me too. Not through addiction but through … other avenues.
I am not a parent myself, so I feel like I shouldn’t really have an opinion
This is one of the biggest lies in life. If your goal is truly to protect/care about children, then that’s absolutely what you should do (though not through any kind of cops, including cps etc, if possible as they just make things worse). You don’t need to be a parent to recognise when another person is suffering, but make sure they actually are and don’t go off of mere suspicion. That way you can work with them to make sure they are getting the care and understanding they need. Maybe offer to look after them ocassionally if you can and would like to.
Yeah there are ways to address issues like this without being confrontational at all. Like you can send them an article titled something like “Single parents who frequently bring new partners around their children winds up harming children’s mental health, new study shows”, and then say “i just came across this article on my feed and thought you might find it interesting”
That’s going to upset someone more than just saying, “children tend to live what they learned at home, as an adult, without intervention.”
That’s a good point
Thank you!
In some situations (not this one from the limited information we have) getting CPS involved is necessary because of the way that the legal system works.
Our point is that CPS and the legal system is not the only way to solve problems and other ways should be tried before ever touching them if at all possible.
I agree, I wouldn’t involve CPS. Their father is active in their lives, though not primary custodian. And, while I may struggle with this person, they love their kids deeply, that’s one of the reasons it’s so difficult, I don’t think they see how it’s affecting them. Then again, we all have our blind spots, myself included, I only see a sliver of their lives, my perspective is not the whole story by any means.
We think the best thing is to talk to them, both your friend and the kids (seperately), if you can. We understand if that feels really difficult, but we think it’s the best way forward to learn what is actually going on.
deleted by creator
deleted by creator
Well, no, people of other genders or no gender can decide if they want to be here. As long as they aren’t binary men.
deleted by creator
I did miss that. My apologies, I’ll delete.
It’s fine Sam, and thanks for self deleting
I’m not a woman, but I feel
like this is a universal experiencethat a man’s opinion is needed here because women can’t talk among themselves without guidance from a man.Fixed that for you.
Sigh. I just had a similar experience to OP and thought it might be useful input. I didn’t notice the sidebar rule and I’ll delete my post.
Yeah i phased out one of my oldest friends during covid. They were never a great person, but it became glaring during covid in a way that i couldn’t turn a blind eye to any more. Not only did she not mask, which was bad but not a deal breaker, but she actually was scoffing at me wearing a mask. I was like “I haven’t enjoyed talking to this person in a very long time, and now they’re actively on the side of making life worse for me and everyone else on the planet. I’m done with them.”
And that was the end of it between us. We still text once or twice a year to say happy birthday or whatever, but that’s all it is now. In some ways I miss having them around, but mostly i think i want the old version of them around, not the current version where I can’t pretend they’re not terrible.
I’m not a woman
Would you like to share what gender you are (if you have one)?
It’s okay to realize your life path has diverged from these people and step out of the friendships. Even if they at one point donated you a kidney, you shouldn’t stay friends only out of obligation. You don’t seem to really need extra friends in your life, and if you did, you’d likely meet new potential friends through your hobbies anyway
If it were me, I’d just have a list of canned replies like “oh, hey I’m super busy right now. Maybe X can give you their opinion on that profile”, or, “thanks for the invitation! But I need to run some errands and help my mom out this weekend”. This way you’re not really breaking up with them overtly, because honestly I’m not sure they wouldn’t react in a crazy way. After a few weeks of being unavailable they’ll (hopefully) slowly stop reaching out.
I have to admit, it can be easy to play on my empathy and they are all going through some challenging things. I know that’s not an excuse for bad behavior though. It’s difficult for me, personally, as I have some fawning behaviors that I’m still working on and one of them can be a bit of a bully.
I do feel a little ridiculous crowd sourcing opinions at my age but the combination of shared history and my impulse to help people (aka codependency issues), inspired me to get outside views. I appreciate the validation btw, and I like the idea of the slow fade. I do worry about the volatility I’ve seen from one of them so I’m not eager for confrontation (scaredy cat lol).
It’s not ridiculous to ask for outside views, I mean, there’s a reason advice columns were so popular for so long. And you have a really healthy reason for doing so. You’re also not a scaredy cat; there’s enough history with that person for alarm bells to ring, you’re looking to keep yourself safe.
I’m going through a similar situation where I realized I didn’t have any good feelings or thoughts after speaking or seeing a friend, and I absolutely had to walk on eggshells around her. I can look at her life and see that it’s trauma driven, but she has enough self awareness and resources to overcome it. But she won’t, and I don’t deserve to be the recipient of her anger at other people or her own misery. You deserve to have empathy for yourself, too
Wow, your second paragraph resonates with me so much. I absolutely see how trauma informs a lot of their behaviors and I think the second part of your sentence around that is very insightful. Our mental health struggles aren’t our fault, but they are our responsibility, so to speak.
It’s important to me that the people I care about feel safe with me and I enjoy holding space for people. I think sometimes, when I don’t keep my boundaries, that space I try to hold can inspire general trauma dumping. One of them has so much hurt and anger but, you’re right, it’s not my job to process it for her. I still think I’m a bit of a coward lol but I do agree that prioritizing my own safety is important.
- You deserve empathy, too. And if friends are breadcrumbing you, this is just self care, so do less for others to give to yourself. Toxic empathy is real.
https://www.verywellmind.com/can-you-have-too-much-empathy-5224139
Thank you for the validation and for the link. My therapist would be clapping over your response. Y’all are helping a lot, it’s forcing me to put things into words in a way that journaling hasn’t quite achieved on this subject, I appreciate you.
You’re very welcome. I posted a reply under a man’s reply too, in case you didn’t see it, I’m not sure if you’ll find anything helpful there or not.
Thank you for your appreciation, as well. It’s nice to be appreciated in a healthy manner.
deleted by creator
You are welcome.
Your friends sound toxic, ngl. I don’t have enough life experience to give advice on how to handle the kid thing, but the two who love shit talking, cheating and stealing things should probably be cut out of your life. If they’re causing you anxiety, then they’re not healthy for you to be around; and if they’re the kind of people who are resistant to personal critique even from friends, then there’s not much you can do for them. You can’t fix them, nor is it your job to do so; they have to fix themselves.
One of the things that brought me to post was the fact that yesterday, one of them returned from a week’s vacation and blew up my phone while I was at work ranting about how terrible everyone treats her etc. I had my phone on silent, cause work, but it was over 40 messages. Just seeing the number of them made my blood pressure spike.
It’s obvious I suppose that these are not healthy connections, it’s helpful to read it from others somehow. Thank you.
I remember being the one who did that, too. I’ve easily been on both sides. Maybe you’re friend also needs some distance and self care.
This is true. Sometimes coddling and excusing a “friend” who does this causes more harm than good to that very friend in the long term.
I, of course, have never been such a needy, yet ranting friend so I don’t know what you’re talking about.</lie>
Lol. It’s not easy to see until we’re somewhat safely through to the other side. We may see glimpses but tell ourselves it’s different because XYZ, but on the other side, the difference seen very minor.
I’m a man, so do what you want with this advice :)
I don’t think that you are being too judgemental. It’s okay to have some sort of moral compass and when you do, it’s ok to be uncomfortable around people who don’t align with it. We need to identify to the people we hang out with, so if their behaviour doesn’t fit week with our values there will be some sort of tension, inevitably.
Detaching yourself from this group can be a source of anxiety since it feels like making yourself an outcast but there are people out there who you might feel more comfortable around. Finding them might not be easy, but I’m sure you can!
deleted by creator
It’s funny, my partner said something similar, that it’s ok to realize that our ethics no longer align with people in our lives. I just know that I’m far from perfect myself and it felt sanctimonious to me when I first tried to verbalize it.
I do indeed feel anxious about any kind of direct confrontation with at least one of them, which, as I write this, I realize how crazy that is. I shouldn’t be afraid of my friends!
He’s right because I’ve been there and made myself the outcast, both in and , getting out of groups like that. The kicker is, I’m rural, without my own personal transportation, so it’s been extremely quiet for several years. In that time, I’ve allowed myself to grieve and heal from really horrific things that happened, before, during and after that. I’ve come to get to know myself after several physical and mental changes, some of which are due to aging. I’ve learned to forgive, and that often that’s between me and the universe/God, not always with whom I’m forgiving, and I’ve forgiven myself for not seeing certain patterns for years, or staying in them too long because I didn’t want to believe what I was seeing. I’ve even learned that yes, toxic empathy does exist, and how to avoid it, at least I hope I will put it in practice if I ever find myself around different people, because my neighborhood is still my neighborhood, but I also recognize the traumas that cause these patterns here, now, while also recognizing that I’m also deserving of my compassion, empathy and privacy.
I’m really sorry you’re going through all this while also dealing with family illness. I believe you’ll treasure the sanity, stillness and self-assurance that will arise, if you give anxiety and self-doubt room to pass through while not fixing on them too long.
This is the first time I’ve posted anything here in quite some time. Your story moved me because I’ve been there. Best to you.
sigh
Rule. Number. 1.
It’s not that fucking hard to read it.
DAMMIT!
Hi tab! Thanks so much for helping. We are women only so please don’t comment again thanks for understanding
Dani your edit so so kind! Thank you so much ❤️
