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- progressivepolitics@lemmy.world
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Do I like seeing him fuck with Trump? Yes.
Is he a dirty neo liberal? Yes.
Would I support him in a primary for President in 2028? Probably not. I sure hope someone better shows up.
Would I support him if he won the Democratic primary? Yes. Assuming we get elections. Assuming the DNC hasn’t fully fractured and a third party candidate cannot reasonably win.
Would he fix our country? No. See item 2.
Thank you for coming to my TED talk. Its not hard, people.
Good take. Maybe the Kamala protest abstainers will have a fresh enough dose of Trumpism to remember that halfway kind of decent sometimes is better literally the worst possible decision at all times. I hope we still have elections. I hope we are not stuck with Newsom as the only choice. But if we are, he IS the only choice, and even though he’s not nearly progressive, he is far closer to it than whatever the GOP rolls out with in 3 years (whether it is Trump again, Trump Jr., Vance, or a new piece of shit far right authoritarian). We need to make sure he wins, and that means getting your asses to the booth. All of us. Even you.
This is the way.
Can’t trust anything written by prager
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Don’t split. I don’t like the guy much if I have better options, but anytime he’s punching right I’m for him.
So sick of the division amongst the left. He is far from perfect, but I’d much rather take a neoliberal over a fascist.
Neoliberals Don’t oppose fascists.
He will work with the fascist to come up with a compromise that the fascists can live with. That probably means sacrificing vulnerable groups and rallying around right wing talking points.
He is right wing. Gavin newsom is just right wing. the fact that there’s a uneven deeper more belligerent right wing out there doesn’t mean that he is somehow an alternative to it.
This attitude is how you ended up electing Trump.
Its bonkers that you guys are spiralling into a dystopian shitscape day by day and just cant bring yourself to acknowledge that any alternative has to be better.
This is how I feel. I can’t stand neoliberals but some people on here are delusional for saying they won’t for Newsom if he is nominated.
He threw trans people under the bus, and there’s no way in hell I’m voting for that.
Oh fuck you, you tell the left they can’t critisize these people during elections and now we’re not supposed to critisize them aftet elections too? When are we supposed to ask for things that keep us from dying then? You’re part of the problem.
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With all due respect, as I understand where this sentiment comes from, that is how Trump gained momentum and won.
I think the blue no matter who approach has failed more than worked considering Hillary failed, Biden did win but really it was more Trump lost, Kamala lost (she got a shit deal yeah but still neolib vs unchained Trump should have been a no contest) and going further back Gore and Kerry lost to Bush. Clinton basically was the centrist Republican neolib that got Dems a roadmap that they keep to this day.
The time for half measures is over and the DNC needs to adapt or they will end up like the Whig Party. If you dont believe me look at their approval right now, No one likes the Democrats
Newsom is an establishment figure and telling the next generation of voters this is going to be a candidate for change won’t yield the results you think.
With all due respect, as I understand where this sentiment comes from, that is how Trump gained momentum and won.
Trump gained momentum and won because the people in this country don’t know their ass from their elbow in terms of what is happening, and their whole picture of politics is based on confusion and incredibly effective weaponized propaganda.
You presented a child with a pretty unappealing fast food burger that had gone cold anyway, and a big lump of shit laced with (and labeled as) rat poison, and then he selected the shit and ate the whole thing. And your reaction is, “Well the burger should have been better.” I mean, it’s not at all an incorrect statement. But I feel like the way it played out should be automatic proof that the burger quality wasn’t the core of the issue.
I would say the citizens that experienced the fall out from NAFTA that gutted blue collar jobs and created the rust belt would say “the big lump of shit with rat poison” was the Democrats that threw the working class overboard years ago.
Speaking of poison, it is the same reason residents of Michigan would rather vote Trump because the Democratic party and Obama would rather gaslight them about their water being safe to drink instead of charging the corporations that cut costs that polluted the water with federal charges. Obama also bailed out Wall Street and left hard working Americans with a shell of an American dream.
The core of the issue is the Democrats use to be for the everyday man and they lost their way and eroded trust, that will never be gained back. What that leaves voters in fly over states with is a choice to vote their better interest or have a candidate that “tells it like it is” aka lie and get back at the party that screwed them over.
It’s not as black and white when you’re in the thick of it, as difficult as it is to reason with that base.
The greatest trick the devil pulled was convincing people he didn’t exist. The greatest trick the Republican party pulled was convincing people that its most unpopular ideas are entirely Democrats’ fault.
NAFTA was championed by, majority supported, and voted in by mostly Republicans. It was ultimately bipartisan, but Democrats were significantly more opposed to it than Republicans (of Republican Congress members, only 10 in the Senate and 43 in the House voted against it; of Democrats, 28 in the Senate and 156 in the House voted against it).
This isn’t to say that NAFTA is objectively bad policy; most economists argue that it ultimately benefited the whole country. However it did expose US manufacturing to significant competition, reduced bargaining power for manufacturing workers, and shocked communities which were solely reliant on the sector to support them. Larger cities were mostly unaffected due to their more diverse economies, and in many cases thrived off increased trade and lower prices for goods. As a reminder, urbanites trend Democrat, rural folk trend Republican.
The trope that urban liberals successfully screwed over rural conservatives just isn’t true. Instead it seems that, at screwing themselves over, urban liberals failed and rural conservatives succeeded.
https://www.senate.gov/legislative/LIS/roll_call_votes/vote1031/vote_103_1_00395.htm https://clerk.house.gov/Votes/1993575
Jesus Christ he hasn’t even announced he’s running yet. Why are we already pretending these are the only two alternatives?
We don’t need to choose a neoliberal over a fascist… we can push for someone better.
Do we need to start the purity tests already, though? I don’t like Newsom and would vote against him in most any primary but I will absolutely vote for him over Trump or any other current republican. I can’t name a single republican I’d vote for at this point because they’re all complicit.
Yes. People won’t vote against him if we don’t articulate our criticisms against him.
He’s a bad governor who is widely disliked in California. This carnival show he’s putting on is his only claim to fame and it depends on democrats in other states not knowing anything else about him or his record.
Like, I don’t understand the implications of what you’re saying here. That we can’t criticize any politician who’s not a fascist? How is that a reasonable strategy?
I’m not saying that we can’t criticize but does it need to start now? Can’t it wait until we see who the field of candidates are so we can avoid tarring the candidates before they even start debating? I am mainly worried that the democrats are going to rip themselves apart again before campaign season even starts.
I completely disagree. This is the best time to be brutally honest so that bad candidates don’t launch and it’s easier to have a united front once most voters start paying attention during the campaign.
I’ve lived under Newsom (and to be clear, voted for him over republicans every time) so I don’t need to see him debate or anything to make up my mind about him. He blocked more progressive legislation in California than the republicans here did. He’s also a rich, corrupt slime ball who has nothing but disdain for ordinary people. He’s not a good candidate.
He’s also a rich, corrupt slime ball who has nothing but disdain for ordinary people. He’s not a good candidate.
Completely agree with 100% of this. I hate that he’s sort of the default “big white guy face of the Democrats.” But also, I like that he’s at least making some substantive effort to fuck up Trump’s attempt to seize control of the country and throw all his enemies into the camps. I wish there were a few more people in power who were doing that. If he’s only doing it because he’s being a ponce who wants to make a name for himself, fuckin’ great, I hope he gets turbo narcissism tomorrow and starts doing it twice as hard.
There needs to be a united front to get Trump out. Newsom is welcome to join in, and at least he’s bringing the fight to MAGA and not just whining. And I say this as someone who despises Newsom’s sleazy corporate centrist politics.
But I’m going to keep pushing for progressives, and even more, for grassroots organizing outside the Democratic Party. The Dems will only change when events force them to.
How about we start with a primary race? When was the last time the democrats ran a presidential primary that didn’t come across as a fait accompli? Maybe 2007?
First, criminalizing homelessness is fascism. If you can’t take a stand for the homeless how can you expect anyone to take a stand for you? You thibk he won’t throw you under the bus if it’s politically expedient? Second, do you intend to repeat the same song and dance that got Trump elected twice? The definition of insanity is doing the same thing and expecting different results. Third, why are you compromising from now? Like come on it’s still 2025, even if you’re going to vote blue no matter who, now you should be projecting strength not compliance.
vote blue no matter who
Literally the only time I hear this is from people on Lemmy who are trying to criticize some potential ally by being embittered.
Nobody is talking about voting for Gavin Newsom. We’re talking about it being good that he’s irritating Trump by taking concrete steps to preserve our democracy. You would be the guy in the revolution who’s constantly trying to root out “counterrevolutionaries” in the ranks and snitching people to the secret police because they’re not revolutionary enough, right during the run-up to the big battle to see if the movement can even survive.
Nobody is talking about voting for Gavin Newsom.
The article is pretty explicitly talking about that, and the parent comment of this thread is responding to that by saying they’d “much rather take a neoliberal over a fascist.” If you’re not talking about voting for Gavin Newsom, you’re in the wrong thread.
Leftists: “Democratic politicians are feckless. They need to get on social media to call out Trump’s bullshit on daily basis! When is a leader going to step up?!”
Somewhere, a finger curls on a monkey’s paw.
Don’t care. He’s not a fascist and that’s enough right now.
This is a huge problem in mindset in my opinion. Yes he’s better than Trump. But I can grab a random person off the streets and they’d probably clear that bar. Our economic and political systems will always pool power into fewer and fewer peoples hands. We need drastic rethinking of how our society is going to work because Newsom will 100% sales out the American people when the rubber meets the profits. The old system are dead. We are just experiencing the symptoms and only wanting to stop the pain. Not cure the sickness.
He also wants to win an election in 2028 not pander to left wing donors in 2025.
Not to mention avoiding the mistakes Harris made. It is perfectly clear that it is impossible to veer left enough to stop the left from attacking you for not veering far enough to the left.
Newsom is your average neoliberal. As much as I like seeing someone troll Krasnov it’s important to remember that neoliberals are not going to help anyone but themselves and their corporate donors.
Hmm, who do I support: Someone who I don’t necessarily agree with on every issue or the guy actively working to destroy my country and those of our allies? Tough call.
I’ll take the neo-liberal over the outright nazi fascist, thanks
Well, history has shown that your fellow Americans do not agree with you. There is plenty of time to find a candidate that will actually be popular with voters
Yeah but he’s one of the few Democrats actually doing something against Trump and co.
What’s he actually doing? Having his social media manager write zingers for him? I’m sure Trump is so scared.
He’s been pushing back in a lot of ways. I don’t like him and would vote against him in a primary, but I’d absolutely vote for him if he wins the nomination.
As to what he’s done, here are a few things off the top of my head:
- Began the process of redistricting CA to offset what TX is doing.
- Sued to keep the national guard from being deployed to LA.
- Pushed back on repeal of the EV mandate.
Again, I don’t like him. He’s slimy. I still will vote for him if he’s nominated.
Ok, what’s the point of posting an article from 2 years ago?
Which part of the article is incorrect?
The part where it said Douglass won the debate, when Lincoln got far more cheers.
newsom could have just not done a photo op while clearing encampments.
between that and pandering to conservatives on trans rights I see no reason to trust the guy further than I can throw him
2023
There’s a reason it’s coming back around to the fore, I suspect. Because it’s time to play the favorite game of “This left person isn’t left enough! Let’s attack him!”
I mean yeah Gavin Newsom is kind of a POS. I don’t even like the guy, he’s not particularly left-wing and I wish the Democrats had more better standard bearers than this guy. But what the fuck, he is fighting against Trump and that’s a good thing. Supporting Gavin Newsom for sticking his thumb in Trump’s eye is absolutely in no way incompatible with supporting more genuine left-wing people (including supporting replacing Newsom with someone better as soon as that becomes feasible.) Just replacing him with “let’s let the bad guys win instead” is fuckin’ stupid.
The point of reposting the article is that Newsom is using Trump to mask his own shittiness, so it’s important to remember who exactly we’re looking at right now. Newsom is not what America needs, no matter how much he tries to convince you otherwise.
I know, I know. Just like
BidenKamala Harris wasn’t what America needed right now. It was super important for everyone to hear, and keep in mind and remember. I sure do appreciate you working so hard to keep the most important things to focus on front-of-mind for everyone, thanks so much.Just like Biden Kamala Harris wasn’t what America needed right now.
Uh… Literally yes. We are currently living in the timeline brought about by the fact that neither of them were what America needed. That is, in fact, my point.
Here, let me draw you a pie chart of what happened in the election:
- US media is awful: 25%
- US political education is bad: 20%
- Deliberate propaganda flooding into social media, such that a ton of Hispanics including undocumented immigrants voted for Trump: 20%
- Democrats are corporate dogshit: 15%
- People just don’t care: 10%
- Inflation / immigrants: 8%
- Democrats failed to make a clean break, stand up for Palestine and unions, et cetera, and galvanize the activist left: 2%
- Election fuckery: ???% but probably not 0
I actually 100% agree with you that modern Democrats are horrible. Like I said at the beginning, I definitely don’t like Newsom, and then you saw fit to lecture me about how I need to understand that he’s not all that good. The problem is that our political system rewards people for being dogshit, and punishes them or casts them out if they are not. So yes, it’s not real surprising that most of the Democrats are shit. IDK how people who seem so informed about politics and talk about it so incessantly keep being surprised by that apparently.
We need to fix our political system. There are a million ways to do that. Some people are working on them very hard. We need to be in the streets, right now, we need to be working hard to make a future before we all wind up in the camps. Sure, let’s replace Gavin Newsom WITH SOMEONE THAT WILL BE BETTER. Just shitting on him randomly is not going to improve the system. Neither did it for Kamala Harris, neither did it for Biden.
I voted for Bernie. I voted in the primaries. I’ve been to protests. I’ve contacted my congresspeople. I did some volunteering in this last election. I honestly don’t really know what to do. But it constantly pisses me off to see this lazy and entitled mindset where people are just going to sit back and let the whole place slide into the fucking ocean because our “left” party hasn’t reached the point, independently, that they feel like it needs to have reached before they’ll feel comfortable supporting, and so who cares what happens even when people are straight-up dying at the hands of the government.
My sibling it’s not going to get there on its own. It’s American politics. It’s fucking horrible. The DNC will not redeem itself just through people withholding votes. They’ll shrug, walk across the aisle, and keep making six figures. They don’t give a shit.
Tell me: What activist organization can I sign up with? What can I do? I’m genuinely asking. I already know that spending time online shitting on the Democrats will accomplish fuck-all to save the country. It’s just you and me wasting our ever dwindling allocation of remaining time wasting our fucking breath.
So, okay, you’re lecturing me on what I need to understand. Tell me: Who should I sign up with? How should I get involved? How can I fix this? If Gavin Newsom is a POS, then who should I be supporting and working for instead? And what on God’s green earth is the point of spending any energy at all shitting on Newsom in the meantime, to suppress by one little sliver some of the outrage when Trump puts him in the camps because he’s “not a progressive” and that’s super important to remember right now? I mean, fuck it, don’t answer that last part, you don’t need to. But what should I do?
I disagree with your chart, but let’s not get into that.
Just shitting on him randomly is not going to improve the system.
True, but what it will do is keep the good things he’s doing now in perspective. Half this very thread is a demonstration of why that’s necessary; he’s gunning for more influence in the party and a 2028 presidential run and both are capital B, capital T Bad Things. It’s not a full solution, but that’s neither here nor there.
What activist organization can I sign up with?
Any local leftist organization that’s actually doing things, when it doubt choose the more militant one. Frankly the time where supporting political candidates was a worthwhile affair is over; from now (or really since January) on it’s the people vs authoritarianism and that fight will be won or lost by bodies in the streets. Look into the examples of Euromadian and the Arab Spring for what will be necessary here. Neither were won (for some definition of “won” regarding the latter) by politicians getting votes.
And what on God’s green earth is the point of spending any energy at all shitting on Newsom in the meantime, to suppress by one little sliver some of the outrage when Trump puts him in the camps because he’s “not a progressive” and that’s super important to remember right now?
The neoliberals absolutely don’t want anything of the sort happening, because then they might have to actually answer to the working class. They’ll hold back any such effort in any way, just like they always have, and it’s within this context that saying “Newsom is actually pretty bad, y’all” accomplishes something. The neoliberal black hole uses people like Newsom (and, for a less recent example, Obama) to suck all efforts at resistance and redirect them into dead end electoralism. And when I say “dead end electoralism” I don’t just mean that the Democrats don’t represent the working class; I mean that democracy will have either been saved or destroyed by the midterms, so a conclusion will have already been reached before the ballot box starts to matter.
I guess the community doesn’t actually have a date rule on posts…. Which it should.
Rules that improve the discourse of the community from the users’ perspective isn’t really how lemmy.world does things. Most of the big communities seem to have mods that vigorously enforce things no one wants, and don’t bother to enforce things that people would like to see.
Well, I don’t disagree with that at all. But you’ve banned me more times than I can count so you’re a bit of a hypocrite.
Sorry, do I know you? I’m extremely sure I have never banned you. Are you just following a “how to stir shit with somebody who used to be in a moderator role” checklist or something?
PTB, are you saying you’re no longer moderating any communities?
Yes, it’s still a good read. They also reposted it today and it’s going viral on socials.
No shit
Gavin Newsom offers more pain and suffering to trans and queer folk.
Not to mention the homeless considering he personally went out of his way to destroy the few things they own.
Ah, so it’s not about the Gaza Strip now, it’s Newsome is feckless.
I swear if Bernie Sanders was back we’d be getting posts like this on him, or Jesus himself.
I don’t want to be conspiracy minded… but the sheer attempts at driving division when we have a literal fascist takeover and yet somehow the democrat is as bad if not worse is starting to smell.
Ah, so it’s not about the Gaza Strip now, it’s Newsome is feckless.
You mean people can have more than one opinion at once?! How unthunkable!
I’ve had multiple people on Lemmy tell me that Bernie Sanders is a Zionist, and they can’t in good conscience support him.
And yes, it’s fake. I mean, some of it might be stupidity or useful-idiot-ness. But some of it is absolutely just people deliberately trying to hurt the left, and it’s succeeding very very well.
So?
